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Pelea Ming
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Posted - 2014.01.16 23:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
After review of this thread and it's intended statement in regards to the ESS of being an inflation counter measure... I'm afraid I have to wave the bullshit flag. Yes, if it's not used, it's a 5% decrease in isk flowing from null, but only in regards to rat bounties... (which says nothing of all the other sources of isk flow from null such as mining which only helps point out the fallacy of this claim), which is rather blatantly abit of 'crying wolf' since if used, it's potentially actually generating an extra 5% isk... I see this, rather, as a blatant attempt by CCP Devs who enjoy null sec pvp roams on the null bears as a chance to now not only farm them for kills but also for easy isk.
Please, oh mighty Devs, tell me how I'm wrong. |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
324
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Posted - 2014.01.16 23:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
I meant it as an example of a source for isk income, my apologies for not clarifying that better... as for 'inflation' in general... I remember when Plex sold for around 350m isk... before incursions. This bloat on plex prices didn't come about till incursions launched... coincidence? (as a side note, I run incursions myself for my main source of isk, I say this to point out that this proposed module will not directly affect me, I argue my point simply to point out why I feel this module is a bad idea) |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
324
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Posted - 2014.01.17 00:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: It is pretty simple and straight forward, and I really don't understand the negativity towards the ESS. Some complain its reward isn't good enough. Some complain defending it is too hard. While both valid viewpoints, these are things that are easily tweaked and changed with feedback. Neither of these imply the idea is terrible and salvageable!
apparently, you aren't reading this thread as carefully as your implying you do. |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
324
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Posted - 2014.01.17 00:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Andrea Keuvo wrote: So where might this deployable work? With some mechanics tweaks, hisec would be the perfect place for it.
Imagine you could drop one of these in a hisec mission hub or incursion system and for 1 hour it would collect 5% of all bounties/LP earned. After the hour is up the module fully onlines and becomes a warpable beacon for 15 minutes.
When you land in the site you have a faction warfare style button where as long as you are within a set range of it you collect a portion of the isk/LP pool. Everyone warping to the beacon can be shot without Concord intervention until they warp away and if you blow up a player's ship you are awarded 50% of whatever portion of the reward pool that player earned.
Just to keep things fun and more hisec noob oriented (we don't need lowsec v2.0 here) no forms of ewar or remote reps can be activated in the site and no fleet boosts/links are applied. However, once you warp to the site your ship cannot reactivate it's warp drive for 30 seconds so you are committed to the battle.
At the end of the 15 minutes any uncollected bounties/LP are automatically returned to the player who originally earned them and the process can start over if someone else onlines a different ESS. If the bounty pool expires before the 15 minutes are up the beacon goes offline, all target locks are broken, all ships in the site warp 1M km in random directions, and normal hisec aggression mechanics again apply.
Now you have a completely new conflict driver as well as opportunities for financially rewarding hisec PvP that doesn't involve griefing, ganking, wardecs, or being Falconed. Hisec players might actually have a positive PvP experience and look for ways to become further involved.
A deployable like the ESS could add content and value to the game if it is introduced into the right region of space with the right mechanics. Yes, we need farms and fields in nullsec but the ESS as it is currently designed doesn't create either. Nullsec is just not the right place for this deployable.
^^ This idea, I actually like, and approve of. |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
324
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 00:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kadl wrote:With the right setup this is defendable against those gangs meeting the 'Farms and Fields' plan. Perhaps the 'Farms and Fields' idea is bad and was made by people with "a complete lack of understanding of how null-sec personal income generation works". Actually, as previously pointed out, for the amount of 'farmers' vs 'defenders' ratio, this would quickly overwhelm what any system is capable of supporting for long enough to make it a viable option... unless you just plan on spending entire days farming belt rats *yawn* |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
324
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Posted - 2014.01.17 00:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Yeep wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I understand you feel that way, but disagree with you. It is an object anyone can deploy to increase their income. To benefit from it, you must harvest it after ratting for a while. It can be harvested by hostiles, too. So you must defend it or risk losing the isk you invested in it. How is this not a farms and field concept? Just because you won't risk it (because your allies will take advantage of you if you do?) doesn't make change its fundamental nature: A farms and field device that qualifies as a small gang objective.
But it doesn't increase your income. Right now it requires someone to be guarding it 100% of the time for 10% extra bounty. For it to increase anyone's income would require 9 people ratting for every 1 person defending. There isn't a single system in the game that can support 9 people ratting profitably. And thats assuming only one single attacker who can be beaten off by a single defender. The defensive effort increases with the number of attackers but the time to loot does not. While a single defender could concievably prevent a single interceptor from looting the ESS if you bring 2 or more attackers the defenders now have to have 20+ people ratting in a system to make it worthwhile to deploy (or 4-5 times the number even the best 0.0 system can support). What is this, you have to defend it 100% of the time? Scenario 1: You are part of a big alliance ratting. Hostiles enter the area and are reported on intel channels. Warp to it and hit share all bounties, and suddenly there isn't very much left in the thing for hostiles to confiscate. Scenario 2: You are are ratting solo in the system. A hostile enters system, one of you warps to the POS, swaps to an inty, warps to the thing and the hostile has 20 seconds to stop you from hitting share all and reclaiming your bounties. Sure, they may be in an inty that can warp to it too, but they will often fail to hold you as your "button pushing" inty is certainly stabbed. Scenario 3: A random solo neut routinely attempts to steal the loot. Next time they come into system, you surprise them with a direct counter to their ship. If they turn out to be a hotdropper, you can setup to hotdrop them back.... Scenario 4: You and 3 others are ratting in a system. One of you puts a noobship alt at zero on the beacon. If a hostile comes into system, he can instantly hit share all if anything lands on grid with the beacon. There are plenty of ways this can work, you just have to think for 10 seconds on, "How can I reclaim those ticks". considering the time investment needed to make such a small % to pay off, that sounds like a hell of alot more hassle then it's worth. Quite honestly, the only place I see this thing being regularly used is by those uber large bloc null alliances which have total lockdowns for secure isk generation systems... ie, this makes life harder for the 'nubs' and easier for the ones the nubs already have issues with.
In short, CCP is showing favoritism? |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
324
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Posted - 2014.01.17 00:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Pelea Ming wrote: considering the time investment needed to make such a small % to pay off, that sounds like a hell of alot more hassle then it's worth. Quite honestly, the only place I see this thing being regularly used is by those uber large bloc null alliances which have total lockdowns for secure isk generation systems... ie, this makes life harder for the 'nubs' and easier for the ones the nubs already have issues with.
In short, CCP is showing favoritism?
The time investment to make a small % of pay off? It takes you 60s to anchor this at the start of your farming session. Anytime a hostile enters system, or when you are done ratting for the day, it takes you another 60 seconds to swap to an inty, warp on grid, and hit share all, AND scoop it to your cargo. That's 120 seconds of your life. I'll double it in case your slow. So, in 4 minutes you make 5-10% more isk per tick. What's a good return on 4 minutes of your time? 75m isk / hour would mean this must net you 5 million isk to be worth your time. Gee, after 100 m isk in bounties, its paying that 75m isk / hr. At 200m isk in bounties, thats 150m isk per hour. But it isn't worth your time? And then there's the nonsense that only "large alliances" with "Secure isk generation" can benefit from this? Well, that just described half of nullsec. And the truth is, I already pointed out how a solo player could utilize this themselves. This is a straight up boon to ratting, and it is a great farms and fields device. The main animosity in this thread is from the 5% nerf to nullsec ratting that was brought up (and should be discussed independent of this module). Your completely ignoring the time to travel through the bubble it generates for one thing,
but that aside, no, I mean the time investment to grind through the isk the % has to work off of. |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
324
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Posted - 2014.01.17 00:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:The main animosity in this thread is from the 5% nerf to nullsec ratting that was brought up (and should be discussed independent of this module).
as for this statement... no, it shouldn't be discussed seperately, as it is part and parcel with this module, since they intend it to be the 'stick' to help drive us to use the 'carrot'. |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
324
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Posted - 2014.01.17 00:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hate to break it to you, Gizznitt, but really, your last statement most directly applies to you, especially when your continueing to ignore some of the proposed facets of this new module when they're inconvenient to your proposed argument. |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
325
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Posted - 2014.01.17 01:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
to begin with... the bubble it forms around itself, for another, that it takes time to farm the rats to generate the bounty payouts for the module to work off of. sure, some rats will give a 1m payout, but overall, it still takes time to farm them over and over again, and even in that case, it's only a 100k isk 'bonus' you can get for it... and finally, the fact that the 5% bounty nerf is in essence part of this module, since it is intended to be CCP's 'stick' to provide us more reason to go for this presumed 'carrot'. |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
325
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Posted - 2014.01.17 01:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
also, side note... Deployable Gate Guns... YES! Peeps have been wanting these for YEARS! |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
328
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Posted - 2014.01.17 02:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
just a side note here, Gizz, but doesn't CCP consider 'lowsec' as part and parcel with null, not hs? and perhaps this next is simply a misunderstanding on my part due to using the same word, but are PvP claimed 'bounties' included? |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
328
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Posted - 2014.01.17 02:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
sorry, Gizz, I wasn't aware inty's are immune to bubbles now... wtf, CCP, that was a ~really~ ****** move to make on those hulls! |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
328
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Posted - 2014.01.17 02:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
anyways, I do appreciate the clarification on this all, and I now find myself saying this... do whatever you want with the module, but I think the 5% nerf was a very sad 'stick' to go and beat us with (again, saying this as someone who farms most of his isk these days in HS, so not directly impacted by it) |

Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor
328
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Posted - 2014.01.17 02:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Also, I still say this thing is going to only be mostly used by the 'big boys' who can hold systems secure from outside interference to successfully use it (like goons, and etc). |
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